I knew I was going to get this. With hard work and discipline it’s all possible. To be able to sky like a man half my age – a pro hopeful no less – is gratifying in a way that nothing else is.
It makes me wonder about paths unchosen. About whether I could have had a career as an NFL football player. But then I have to remind myself, I had a pretty good career – no point in second-guessing fate. But I sure had fun recording the video below. Now share yours.
We’re all the same. How many times have we looked back and thought “I coulda’ been a contender!” Whether it’s about a sport, a career track, a relationship that never was. So much potential is wasted, and that’s life.
We can’t go back, but we can go forward, and go forward we must. The ONLY way to rewrite the past is to go forward. It’s true for me, it’s true for you. So get busy.
It’s especially true for ANTWAUN and ANDY. That’s right, Double A Cutting Transformation in the house. I have spoken at length to both parties and it’s go time. Feel free to follow their programs and compete at home – that’s the whole point. STAY TUNED and BRACE YOURSELF for gettin’ cut up for the holidays, son.
[youtube=
Follow the Double A Cutting Transformation in forum.
*Way to go..keep it up!
You are the man Kevin! what blew my mind is you were just sick and put up crazy stats!
That’s some great achievement!
Looks like the sky’s the limit with the NFL style training, great results & explosive energy!
Nearly all athletes perform body-building exercises in their training, the reverse can be applied to body-builders.
Its slightly off topic but, personally I’d like to see a new category of body-building competitions include this NFL combine test as mandatory so those athletes have more doors open to them if they wish to play sports after the stage.
Good luck to Andy and Antwaun, I hope they reach their goals.
Awesome improvement Kevin. Looks like you could block a lot of field goals with that vertical jump. I like the term “moving athlete.” Being a former wrestler and long time marital arts enthusiast, I have always been use to thinking about developing a number of attributes i.e. strength, speed, endurance, reflexes, flexibility and even mental toughness.
Good luck Andy with your transformation. Greatly looking forward to seeing your results. I know you have a heart of a warrior.
That was sick dude….congrats my man….Im happy as well tonight i hit a personal best on my deadlift…315 4sets of 5 reps…after three warm up of 135x12,225x10,275x8…..full blown baby….I’ve been hitting my rear delts alot too Kev…Trying to get Levrone quality shoulders….God bless brother…..PHILLY POWERHOUSE OUT!!!
Man you are blessed with amazing genetics.Congrats!I think you could have played in the nfl.You would have been a great Safety,because your smart,strong and fast.To go to a good D1 college you would have had to play in high school ball.My guess is you were to busy powerlifting and chasing girls LOL atleest thats why I didnt play ball too+well my parents were a BAD parents..
Kevin, can you dunk a basketball?
Wow! got some serious springs there Kevin; if im honest I wasnt sure how I would find this video, but you delivered as usual! nice one. In fact this video got me thinking.. Its interesting to see the difference weight training makes to performance but how about bodybuilding?- What I mean by this is for athletes (like yourself) to have their motions analysed and then work on strengthening/ enlarging certain muscle areas to imrove the dynamic posture of the person. now obviously this has been done for years (perhaps a little hap hazardly)- Do you think this is something you could build into your program and possible return to stage? can the stage bodybuilder also be an excellent athlete??
I’m probably combining two questions into one with the above but it would be interesting to see the wier scope of exercise techniques available to target very specific areas to grow/ strengthen them
Excellent jumping Kevin! Good physical shape is the key to good health!
Hey Kev -- its refreshing to hear such positivity on life on this webpage in contrast to the general negativity we usually see and hear all around us. This community is a great thing -- its inspired a lot of people to really focus on the important things in life and reach for goals they may have not at first thought possible. It has certainly given me the confidence and drive to take that extra step both in and out of the gym. I personally have really shown improvement in the gym -- both in my appearance, fitness, general health and strength -- and I have applied this focus to life in general. I thought about applying for the tutorship thing on offer recently with yourself but at the moment I have too much on with work and studying -- but hopefully if you offer such a scheme in future I’ll look to apply. Thanks again Kev for creating this community -- much respect to you. Tom
Great leap there Kevin. Also -- can’t wait for the Double A cuttting transformation.
kevin levrone u mary land muscle machine mass!!! listen up big dog kev im going to enter the levrone olympia bud i missed out last time and im on this with u baby FULL BLOWN AND IN UR FACE!!!! u simply are a true warrior kev!!! ur my hero man i just hope ur be at the DORIEN YATES EXPO BODY POWER next year to meet u ! ive met alot of the other body builders like jay, flex and so on ! witch i said about u and said the levrone report was amazing and u were the man and my idol apart from arnold lol and u should of won a mr olympia witch BUGS THE hell out of me!! and i said hthat flex was amazing to? but the n f l training is great stuff im tring it out my self and its going great !! anyway kevin urs truely david duquemin BA BOOOM!!! peace buddy
P S ive been trying to get all my gym buddys to take the levrone formula to 
@ David: i read your post under the previous video, about that it is counter-productive to train chest, shoulders and triceps in one day.
interesting post…i totally agree wid you man, and i have actually said this on many posts before on the TLR, but nobody has agreed with me.
yes, i think chest-shoulders-triceps in one workout is BS. it is a good workout for Levrone, because he is genetically gifted in the shoulder-tricep area, therefore he does not need to hit it as hard as normal people (i know Kevin did not get them for free, but it is easier for him because of genetics.)
for a normal person, the shoulders and triceps will start to lag behind after a while of training. the reason, you ask me? well, if you blast your chest for several sets with bench, decline bench and maybe decline bench as well, how heavy weights are you able to push when you start working shoulders, f.ex with military presses? and after that triceps??naw man…you will have no gas left…..and sorry Kev, but i think it is uneducated to recommend regular people to only use triceps pushdowns for building triceps…that may work for you, but not for the normal dude..
my advice is, chest on f.ex monday, and then hit shoulders/triceps on thursday. ….to build solid triceps for the normally genetically gifted dog, i think it necessary to think basic, and blast them with narrow-grip benches, and heavy dips. then you can finish up with triceps pushdowns….evrything that dude says makes sence….Kevin had a better physique than Dorian, but Dorian is a better coach
i think the most intelligent trainer out there is Dorian Yates;watch this, cus this is all you need :
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dorian-yates-blood-guts-6-week-trainer.htm….ev
the most important thing is, try to train similar muscle groups as far away from each other as possible….example: when you hit chest you also blast shoulders/ triceps, so try to get 3 days rest before shoulder/tricep day….
i think you mean the chest would start to lag behind. normally when you do any kind of pressing movement your shoulders and triceps tire out first. so most people have a heck of a time working chest without hitting the delts and tris. so working them altogether i could see how it would tire out your triceps and shoulders even faster getting even less of a chest workout. but then again you made the comment before about you dont think he trained like this for the olympia. probably not. but who said anybody here was training for the olympia? this is totally different. this guy is training to get cut and it must not be a shit way to train bc kevin did it in his last transformation doing chest/shoulders/tri rotations and it came out perfect.
i think he said what 6 weeks to get any cut? so you have to think about it this way. it takes years for someone to get to know their body. so kevin is trying to do all he can as quickly as possible to help andy out. he doesnt have the luxury of training him for 1 year to see how his body responds. he has to go with what he knows and change it as needed in a very short amount of time.
I LIKE UR STYLE MARTIN well put buddy
u no what ur talking about ! its all about smart training mate 
ive taken in what u said and its going all into action! hey martin u going to enter the levrone olympia !! next time i am this time ? levrones shape is wicked i so wish to look like kev ” but im trying lol i need to catch up on all of the levrone report i haven been on it prop for a while been so busy but im on this now so LETS DO THIS BABY BA BOOOM ! 100 pound dumbell curls in ur face lol! DONT TRY THAT AT HOME 
I just checked out APIs website, they have a decent Youtube channel showing how they test athletes.
It looks like its well worth getting tested by the experts in order to move forward.
http://www.youtube.com/user/APIMaryland?feature=mhw5#p/u
Great choice of music on that video
@martin
i really agree about what you said about . training chest , tries, shoulders in one workout. i tried it but it just dont worked out for me and i think i have very good genetics for tris and delts . i had really not the power to do maximum weight on shoulder movements after chest. i do it as you said chest monday and shoulders -- arms on thursday
Kevin …. hard work pays off. Definitely !!
Great progress !!
Man you jump real high…. Bruce Lee would’ve been proud of you too.
Yesterday I had a tough biceps-workout.
You asked us to share our vids .. well here it is
http://levronereport.com/?page_id=1092/your-story/gerts-story-form-holland/page-19
@ david duquemin and modred : cool that you agree guys….you also have a lot of guys starting off with military-presses when doing shoulders, and these especially hit the front-delts. say you hit bench before shoulders, which also predominantly hits the front of the shoulders, you wud not have a lot of power left…..
i have always been curious as to whether Kevin actually did do chest shoulder triceps in one workout during his Olympia-days (which David also mentioned)….i mean, if he did that, then i absolutely take my hat off for your strength Kevin (well, i do anyways,but…) because: imagine this guys: first you blast out several reps with 500pounds in the bench, before you stroll over to the smith machine and throw up several reps with 405pounds behind the nech-presses!! naw, that cant be possible…please correct me if i’m wrong Kevin, and i will be the first to congratulate you…….
yes david duquemin, i will join the levrolympia this year. good motivation
i think i hve seen kevin in one of his videos and he did shoulders BEFORE CHEST training and he got incredibly heavy on shoulderpress- but only kevin knows- kevin can you tell us please?
you guys realize this is a cutting phase of about 6 weeks right? its not a muscle building phase and kevin doesnt have a year or more to train andy and get to know what does and doesnt work. he is working with what he knows in a very small time frame and hope for the best. i’m shocked people are still questioning everything that kevin has to say. we are talking a top mr. olympia competitor. the best the world had to offer in one of the best lineups the world has ever seen. he obviously knows what he is talking about. drugs didnt do the hard work for him. he didnt just know his body overnight with steroids. he still had trial and error for many years with every aspect of his bodybuilding. he came out on top and everybody is still questioning. when you guys hit mr o or even compete in a show then you can put a little more input. but we are talking guys who have done nothing that are looking for a full complete transformation in the shortest amount of time like everybody else. you guys know it doesnt happen that way.
i had tried to do chest,tri and shoulders in my work out and just couldnt keep up the intensity,by the time i got to the last body part i was fucked.at the moment i am going to stick to two body parts and just mix it up.i have been getting good pumps from shoulders and bicepts.
Great job Kev! That last jump was impressive. Have you tried dunking a basketball?
guys: i realize that i am no former mr.olympia, so you will probably not apply what i’m about to tell you:but, i will tell you anyways,lol
here goes:
this is my ultimate training split:
monday: chest/biceps
tuesday:legs
wednesday: couch and television
thursday:shoulders/triceps (in that order)
friday: back
the point is, as said earlier, to train similar muscle groups as far away from each other as possible:keep chest far away from shoulder/triceps training, and,keep biceps training far away from back training,,,for obvious reasons.
@david: people always use the same method of reasoning as you just did:”look guys, Levrone is a former Olympia contender, and Hall of fame builder, and therefore he knows a lot better than you,bla bla bla…”
no david, it does not work like that. i know guys in my gym that train like braindead idiots, but they still grow like weeds. and i know guys in my gym who train smart and eat like dogs, but still can not grow by much…what i’m trying to say is; the fact that you’re big does not necessarily mean that you are also very knowledgeable when it comes to training methods.
i disagree with many of Kevin’s advises. and to follow a program,just because a pro tells you that is works for him, is just ignorant….even Dorian Yates said so himself,,when he was coming up he had a lot of so called experts telling him, you need to do this and that,,,,and you had the 70′s bodybuilder who did a lot of volume to grow…in Dorian’s words “i did not give a shit about what other people said. i read about all the diffrent training methods, and then decided for myself what made most sence to me, and applied that method”…. and that is an advice i would advice evrybody to follow
i didnt say what worked for kevin works for everybody. and i didnt say anything about a one size fits all program. what i said was kevin has about 6 weeks to work with andy. he is doing what he knows and obviously going to change it up as needed. i said he doesnt have a year to train andy and see what works exactly for him so you cant expect him to put him on a perfect program. kevin is just training him for a short period of time and trying to bring out the best he can with trial in error over a very quick period.
also, just because kevin trained a certain way during his career doesnt mean he hasnt seen things everybody else was doing and also tried many things over his lifetime. so im pretty sure he would know a base point to start with someone and thats exactly what this is. everybody is still so stuck in the magazines about how they think training should be. then when someone who has been to the top, has trial and error with himself, and seen just about everything there is to see in this game comes at us with his tips and different training ideas someone always has to “disagree” with him. i can see why it would be easy to disagree with him when we have all been stuck in the magazines and internet articles about training out whole lives so its hard to step back and see what we have in front of us right now. you might not agree with what kevin does but obviously it works.
he has blasted through every transformation with barely any error or fails at all throughout every single one of them. he went from bodybuilding transformations like before and even the very athletic transformations. he has never done those athletic transformations and still slammed right through them so he has to know a little bit about how to get someone in shape.
Martin
Your a breath of fresh air! and not a fucking yes man! more like you please
martin every one is intitled to there opinion and you make some good points.i like the training routine you got there.thats what im doing at the moment except im doing shoulders and biceps.but at the end of the day what ever routine you going to do its going to vary for each person.you body will get to a certain level of size and conditioning and then the next step is to get on the gear.im a realist that to progress on size and conditioning year in year out cant be done without the gear.kevin has his training methods,dorian has his,but weve all got to be realistic that no matter what routine you choose to do,good nutruition ,consistent training and correct stacking of steroids done safely without abuse will yield you good consistent results year in year out.this is what i believe.cheers fury.
@ Martin
Vaild points man, each to their own -- different courses for different horses. Dorian is one of my favorites along with Kevin, Flex and Ronnie. I totally respect all their advice. Just keep in mind that these guys are speaking from their own experience (ie what worked for them) and no doubt all their methods work, you just got to find what works for you as Dorian did. The only wrong advice is that which does not work for. If Dorians style works best for you then great!…Keep at it. In my case, although Dorians approach makes sense in theory, my body doesnt respond to it. My triceps used to be my biggest weakpoint and I never made any significant growth until I copied Kevin’s tricep pushdown technique -- for that I am forever grateful to Kevin!!! However generally speaking I find Ronnies style of higher rep, blood pumping, max force point overload training works best for me (which is quite different to Dorians style). Anyway, best of luck with your training man.
yup, agreed rob. what works for me, may not work for you….and i think that this especially is true when it comes to reps. for me, very low reps with heavy heavy weight works best for my upper body..others feel they need higher reps..
but, when it comes to dorian’s style, i will almost claim that one part of his training style will top all others; and that is pushing the muscle to failure and beyond…..i will explain:
here goes: dorian explains that lifting weights has 3 phases;positive phase, static phase,and negative phase. you are not finished with the set until all 3 phases are completely exhausted. this is a bit tricky to explain fully, so i will advise you to watch this weekly program of his, where this is explained…i tried this method exactly the way he described it, and it WORKS.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dorian-yates-blood-guts-6-week-trainer.htm
especially for chest and biceps, i feel more rock hard after only 3 weeks of his training
Hi Guys
All the talk about which way to split up the bodyparts is great but no one has mentioned recuperation and overcompensation.
If your not on the gear you need to find out how many days each bodypart needs to recover/overcompensate and then get bigger.
Dorian is right about positive/negative and static strength but to exhaust the muscle every workout like that without THE SUPER SOLDIER SERUM is a fast track to overtrained burnout.
In the winter I train each bodypart with one mass exercise every 4/6 days for 2 sets, min of 4 reps build to max of 10 reps then up the weight. 3 weeks on then one week off.
If I’m not able to beat my last workouts reps/weight etc THEN I AINT RECOVERD “AND” OVERCOMPENSATED = GROWTH
I’m not keen on doing chest -delts-tri’s on the same day neither, just now.
That’s because I want to build up those parts bigger ; for that I do 3 or 4 exercises for chest and a couple each for the other two. I do this every 8 days.
Kevin has other needs than me. He also train 3 days on, one off.He get away with less volume, manage higher intensity and does 2 sessions in 8 days. He does less work each session and that allow to train those 3 on the same day. He does not need to grow bigger tri’s.That work for him.
There’s not universal truth ,not in regard of BB routines, in particolar
Even what Dorian suggest it’s just a template.
Both Kevin and Dorian share their knowledge with us. They share what worked for them.Even Dorian routines on BB.com aren’t comprensive and inclusive. Just templates and suggestion, in good fate.
Past beginner o when stage , one of the important things to do before preaching a routine, would be to assess, then adress.
Not Dorian nor Kevin can do that from the other side of the screen.
The best they can do is to pass on a generic routine.
Then , with that we can adress ourself. The problem is , if we are able to assess ourself deeply enough, we are able to do our routine since the start. So , let’s take those tips as new ideas and approaches, and incorporate the good parts in our experience and knowledge
exactly. these are template routines with the basics on what they know. then after someone is on it they change it up as needed. nobody can expect to have the perfect training program for someone over a computer especially over this next 6 weeks or so.
@ Martin
As you no doubt no, Dorian’s basic training phillosophy came from Mike Mentzer -- mainly the the idea about exhausting the muscle in the 3 phases of the lift.
Now here is the problem…
Although Mike mentzer realized that we must train the muscles to a certain point causing enough stress to stimulate gowth and no more because that could be detrimental to recovery. He was unsure exactly where that point was so believed that going all the way to 100% (ie exhausting the negative phase/the strongest phase of the lift)would be the best bet. For Mike Mentzer this worked, for Dorian this worked but for me personally I find exhausting the negative is overtraining. Forgive me if I am wrong, I vaugely remember Kevin saying somewhere at the begining of his very 1st transformation that he never did negatives in his carreer. That was the 1st real eye opener for me! (…and I am extremely thankful to kevin for sharing that info). I did some experimenting and discovered that my muscles do not need as much stumulation as I originally thought. Doing negatives for me is like beating a dead horse and detrimental. I find I need moderately high intensity combined with volume. Anyway, good on you for thinking outside the square and being open to new ideas/concepts -- just as Dorian did. PS A while ago, I read Mike Mentzers books and tried out Mike Menzters style of like one excercise per bodypart, one working set etc etc -- worst thing I ever did -- I got the exact opposite effect -- I shrunk, I got weak and sickly and as a result got all messed up psychologically. Even Dorian didnt fully agree with mentzer, at least Dorian realised that for a bodybuilder, the muscles need to be hit at different angles for best results.
I was a huge fan of Mentzer growing up. I was one of his first consultation students years ago. His theories made sense on paper but did not translate to gains for me in the gym. Like you I went backwards with his training method. I do think he helped me think in terms of the importance of recovery and workout intensity, but his one set to failure approach did not work. I think the truth for most natural lifters would be somewhere in between the 20 set per body part espoused by the Weider guys and the one-and-done HIT group. Later I found out from several top name body-builders that in reality Mentzer was doing 12 sets per body-part. Only difference was he apparently was not counting his several sub-failure sets as sets and only counted his last to failure set. So in reality he was training similarly to a lot of his peers just he was not in the gym six days a week. In the end, I think Mentzer was trying to sell a method that he never used himself. Dorian’s approach may not work for everyone either but is closer to the truth then the Mentzer Heavy Duty system.
…oops! sorry I clicked the submit comment tab before I finshed.
Basically, one of the key things that we need to do as individuals is ‘find how far we need to train our muscles to reach that point of optimal stimulation’.
For myself at the very most it’s probably just past exhausting the positive phase. Where in contrast, my best friend finds thrashing himself to death training the same bodypart two days in a row no matter how sore he is (yes you read correctly, two days in a row!) works best and from this he makes quick gains -- all natural. (BTW he trains very hard on the 1st day, totally exhausting the negative phases of his lifts and beyond). Once again different courses for different horses.
i have to disagree with those who say that doing negatives do not work for them. because it is a fact that your muscles are not completely finished before the negative phase has also been exhausted.
try it out with a spotter, get your spotter to lift the weights in the positive phase for you, after your positive strength is gone, and then try to hold the weight as good as you can, on the way down (f.ex for bicep curls)..i can guarantee that you will feel it a lot more than normal. and when it comes to overtraining;dorians program only trains each body part once a week. and then it is difficult to get overtrained.
and one more thing dorian always say whe he trains people; if you can’t control or hold the weight back during the negative phase, it is not the muscles that cranked the weight up, but momentum, and the use of other muscle groups that are not supposed to be used on the specific training-day.
a good example: i think it is correct to claim that Branch Warren is a tad bigger than me. but i also think it is correct to claim that Warrens training is a lot more braindead than mine….he is a clown in my eyes. trying to copy Colemans vids, training in the same gym, and yelling LIGHT WEIGHT MOTHERFUCKER, while lifting weights that are 20% too heavy for him, reminding me of a 19-year old kid on an ego-trip from hell. . warren is a big biatch, but i am sure that he wud be a lot bigger, especially his lousy arms, if he had trained more intelligent
@ Martin,
Ha ha ha, yes I am not a Branch Warren fan. I respect him as far as being an Olympian competitor but thats it. Anyway…As another example, Jay Cutler is famous for getting accused of using sloppy form yet he said so himself that slow reps do not work for him, even from the very beginning of his career. I too find the same thing with slow reps (on the down phase of the lift) -- I get tired, the muscles get sore but little to no growth. I dont doubt Dorians methods, I just know they do not work best for me.
As for sloppy form, so long as it works injury free then thats all I care about. I see guys using so called perfect form yet they look skinny and pathetic -- far from that of bodybuilders. Yet these same guys often are the ones dishing out regurgitated text book advice? I just scratch my head. Their excuse for their lack of development is genetics. Yeah genetics are a key factor but everyone can make significant improvements regardless of their genetics, we just all cant be as good as Kevin and the other legends.
To re-cap on what the others said, there is no perfect template for us all. Only general guidelines. Anyway, glad to see you have found what works for you.
Mike Mentzer was certain that his style was the best and that everyone would receive maximum benefit if they followed it -- not true in my case. Despite dorians style not working for me, i would still recommend others to try it if conventional methods are not working however for mentzers, even though it worked for him -- after what I went throguh, I would never recommend training like Mentzer.
@ Kevin, in regards to paths unchosed. Dude!!! Are you kidding??? I would much rather have been in your position than exchange that for a place in the NFL, NBA etc etc. Being the best at an individual sport I think is far more rewarding than any team sport can offer. You are the man!!! What I would give to have your level of success with bodybuilding. I could die happy just making it to last place on the Olympia stage.
@martin- who cares what dorian yates said himself? just like you said, just bc he was a mr olympia doesnt mean anything. your saying that you dont agree with most of what kevin says and that your reasoning is because you see guys who can train hardcore and never grow and guys who barely do anything and grow like weeds. now how do you know dorian wasnt the guy who grew like a weed? obviously training heavy duty he had awesome genetics to grow like a weed because there are only a few people i have ever seen use those training methods and grow. so your taking everything dorian says to heart knowing that he had awesome genetics. how can you say it only works for dorian and not kevin? how is that fair?
dorian i am sure he trains everybody starting out almost exactly the same. heavy duty style right? thats why people go to him because he is the heavy duty mr o am i right? he NEVER varies his training based on all his videos and articles. when he trains someone its always basic heavy duty stuff. not to mention just about every workout i have seen him do or put someone through has been the exact same exercises/sets/and reps varying only by the gym they are in because different gyms have varying equipment.
so your saying for kevin to start someone else on a basic training program doing it his way is wrong, but dorian can start out someone doing it his way and he is right? your totally taking it out of reality saying just because kevin was in the mr o doesnt mean he is right on everything and you dont agree with him. you not realizing yourself its the exact same thing with dorian yates. just because he was mr o doesnt mean he knows everything. his genetics and drugs could have been what made that program work the most. which is why you never see anybody natural using that training style and moving up in size. you only see that once they start using drugs.
maybe you would possibly find dorians little thread more suitable for what you believe. since you dont agree with half of what kevin is saying and the things he does what is the point of following and commenting about some other bodybuilder?
@ Martin,
Sorry another point I forgot to mention. Like Mentzer, Dorian also believes that as you progress in your training, by lifting heavier weights etc -- it’s more taxing on your bodies reserves so it takes longer to recover because your nervous system remains the same and doesnt improve as you get fitter and stronger over time.
*** watch 16:00 to 18:10
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/lifestyles/2010-md-spring-seminar/2660-gaspari-nutrition-presents-the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-chest-training.html
This goes against what Ronnie says. Ronnie says that if you are still sore after workouts then you are not training enough. Of course you need to allow the body time to grow -- there is a fine balance. Ronnie says he no longer gets sore from workouts and he can recover extremely quickly -- after one hour he is ready to train again. This makes more sense to me that as you progress, your body adapts including your nervous system. The thought of taking longer to recover as you progress is almost an incentive not to train in the first place -- thats one point that does not make sense to me with Dorians/Mentzers idea.
also naturally there is no possible way you can actually take every single set to complete failure without overloading your CNS to the point it wont be able to recover. if you trained 4x a week like dorian going to absolute failure on every set you would in no way be able to recover natural. you would have to take half a week off just to get rid of the soreness then another half a week to recover your CNS then another couple days to get back your intensity to come back in and push even harder than before. that goes back to the principles of mike mentzer. but if your going to progress you would have to train the muscles more frequently. which is why dorian trained 4x a week and did more exercises than mike. but overall they were all on steroids anyways which is why they could train to complete failure all the time and recover quicker. it had nothing to do with less volume and higher intensity.
and obviously training like that isnt very safe considering dorian had so many injuries and even one that was career ending. so he is trying to push that training style off on everybody even the natural guys. if he ended his career with severe enough injuries doing this type on training while he himself was on steroids what would make anybody think that as a natural bodybuilder you could train this same way at such a high intensity level and recover just as quickly? even training natural your going to top out on strength much quicker than if you were to do this using steroids. it never hit mainstream not because of the magazines pushing volume and all that crap, but because volume works better and heavy duty/hit doesnt. the top level in every sport train volume on just about everything they do. even 1 rep max powerlifters train for hours on end even if it is only a few reps per set. only the super high genetically gifted guys one huge amounts of steroids are going to recover from the highest intensity levels these guys are pushing.
everybody is always talking about the training methods of the pros but seriously they dont apply to most of us because we arent on steroids. you have to put hard work in everything you do in bodybuilding and we all know that. but steroids are really a huge stepping stone that sets us apart no matter how you want to look at it. we cant train like them so why would we talk about their training? kevin is doing this stuff all natural right now and busting through his transformations. so why are we still talking about how these 250+lb bodybuilders on steroids are training when it doesnt apply to really any of us?
I LOVE DORIAN’S ATTITUDE BUT COMPARED TO KEV HE IS A CAVEMAN
DORIAN IS A FEW YEARS OLDER THAN KEV BUT MAN HE LOOKS KNACKERED! NO OFFENCE DUDE
I BET HE COULDN’T MATCH KEV AS A MOVING ATHLETE…EVER!
POOR DORIAN HAS A KNACKERED BICEP AND TRICEP, KEV STILL COULD BE A CONTENDER FOR THE MR O BUT NOT DOZZER
david david david…..i was afraid i would get critic for this. but, i never said that Dorian is the only man to follow on this planet, and therefore making an ass of myself, because i critiqued kevin for not knowing it all just because he is a pro.
fuck dorian’s past. he could be a guy working in the mall for all i care. what i was trying to point out is: it does not matter who said it, in this case it was Dorian who said it. what matters is that the training methods make sense to you. and that is what dorian said himself; before he was a pro, when he was nothing, he did not care if a pro told him do this or that. he read evry article he could find, and applied what made most sense, and what worked best on his body……..
ok ok guys, i will admit that diffrent bodys react differently. and forget the “dorian yates is God” concept. i’m just saying, evrything he says makes sense. and he really cares about preventive training to avoid injury…f.ex rotator cuff warm-up and training…..these are things kevin never mention;and i’m surprised, cus training rot.cuffs is EXTREMELY important to avoid injury. and for Kevin to recommend behind the neck-presses to amateurs, or to anybody for that matter, really surprises. TAKE IT FROM ME, CERTIFIED LOSER AND WANNA-BE MARTIN:NEVVER TRAIN BEHIND THE NECK-PRESSES. i know a few guys who have destroyed their shoulders on these, and rotator cuffs flying all around the room,and they were never able to regain their original strength again…..
i just feel that kevin seem a bit un-educated in some of his recommendations sometimes…..first off, behind the neck-presses…second off, advising evrybody to only use triceps pushdowns for triceps….i mean, i will admit it, when i applied kevin’s method for triceps pushdowns, i cud not believe how well they worked….but i have been in the game for a while, and to brag a bit
, can push 5 reps in the narrow bench with 290lbs…i mean, to f.ex recommend an 18-year old who can push 90lbs in the narrow bench, to focus solely on tri pushdowns to build up his tris…well, he aint gonna develop roelly winklaar triceps is he…?
the answer, if you were wondering, is no………..
david: i do not care, once again, that dorian is former Olympia,i follow his ways because he makes damn good sense period: i have watched the training of all the olympians, and dorians training is the only one i have ever taken seriously…..i can list a lot of clowns who are pro’s: johnnie jackson and branch warren, dont get me started on those to ego-clowns,haha….ronnie;damn he was strong, and he was huge, but i would never recommend anybody in here to apply his methods. same with jay….
my tip is to use your brain, listen to your own body, and take tips from whoever, as long as they make sense….as late as yesterday, i received tips from a 19-year old in my gym, on performing bench presses. he observed my technique, and commented. i listened, applied it and damn it worked. with that little cosy story, i try to tell you that sometimes it makes just as much sense to listen to Martin on TLR instead of Kevin..and sometimes it makes more sense to listen to Kevin, and not Martin
david and martin.body building is a unique sport where there are all these pros past and present giving there opinions or phyolosophy on the sport.its a sport where your constantly learning how what reacts with your body wheather its nutruition,gear or routines.what i realised when i got to know some of these pros and top amateur is that they trained instictive with no set routines.there exercises compromised one compound movement and the rest varied from week to week.but and this is really what it came down to it was the amounts of gear the guys where on.the gear played the staring role.how much.man if anyone says its all genetics has got know idea.yea genetics plays a huge role and so does the amount of gear these pros take.when these pros where dosing large amounts they where training heavy real heavy.when they were on there maintainence cycles they trained light.so to try to emulate some of these guys routines and recover for another hard work out is impossible.what they should say if your a natural bodybuilder this what i advise and if your on the gear this is the alternate.the recovery when your on the gear is remarkable which allows you to train harder each work out.i for one cannot train 3 on 1 off like kevin does as natural and recover and train with intensity on that routine.just my take on it fellows.cheers fury
Excellent picture now before loading the TLR! The best form of Kevin!!!
Great work Kevin you’ve conquered this NFL combined challenge looking forward to the after shots of Andy’s transformation and Antwauns win! And also new challenges moving forward on TLR,
Hey Kev I made an effort to make a video but just listening to myself creeped me out but it’s a work in progress and one of my challenges to eventually overcome, I’m one of those people who like to perfect things and it was far from it, but eventually I hope I can be proud of the video I contribute to TLR and credit to those who post them!
Yeah so awesome stuff man and can’t wait to see whats up next on TLR.
And to those in Haiti keep fighting strong what warriors they are, they have been wounded twice this year let’s hope the death toll comes to a hault my heart goes out to them!
martin im feeling what ur saying big dog !!
at the end of the day its so simply train ur shoulders hit them hard ! 4 movements pack ur bag, go home feed it and GROW ! and let thos shoulders rest and repair and next time mix around and do some diff movements on the shoulders and soon they will go ! and hopefully there look something like levrones lol 
martin u on facebook brov ? anyway kev GERT IS RIGHT BRUCE LEE WOULD BE PROUD !!!! BA BOOOOM PEACE
yo david duquemin, at the beginning of your lifting career i think it is irrelevant what you do, as long as you, as you say, hit it hard evry time..and if you eat enough,you will grow. as time goes by it gets harder to grow, and thats when you need to think smarter about your training…
naw man, sorry, i just recently deleted my facebook. my girlfriend wud nt let me have it, she was jealous,hehe. i am definitely the b***h in the relationship….
to piss off kevin a bit at the end here,,i think what kept him from beating dorian, is that he did not follow dorians training methods when it came to back training. for the rest of the body he had dorian beaten. but as we all know, the greatest back wins olympia….kevin used sloppy form, and too heavy weights for bent over rows, and other back exercises. he trained his ego 20% of the time, while dorian kept it strictly business 100% of the time. and that made him win
martin i agree with u there a little bit. About doriens training methods . I just think dorien just had a geneticly a big ripped back that grown to be his strongest body part. Like ronnie at 1 point ? And kev had a hard time on hitting the back pose against dorien. Kevin should of won the mr olympia when dorien tour his biceps but im not sure what year maybe 97 ? Anyway thats pretty funny tho with the miss martin never mind bud. How much do u weigh and how would u say u look. U compete? Kevins my idol man i really wanna meet him ive meet alot of i fbb pros but if theres 1 body builder it would kevin i would love to meet hes such a intresting and bright and positive bloke and has the shape i would die for lol . Im def on it with the levrone olympia a have a POSE DOWN WITH U MARTIN B-)
@Martin -- Just to pick up on one of your points here Martin, I have always wondered why many of the guys these days seem to loosen up the form, do fast reps with hardly no emphasis on the negative and seem to let momentum come into play to lift heavier weights. I am NOT criticizing anyone here; I would honestly like to know if there is some rational behind this type of training. If I believed it was a better way to train, I would be the first to adopt it. Being older, I tend to train the old school way with slow negatives, very strict form and no momentum. Of course you have to use less weights that way, but I was always under the impressive that that is the best way to stimulate muscle growth. Frank Zane would not train heavy but would still really work the muscle. He was like a Zen master meditating when working out. I would love if someone could speak to this.
i seen a flex magazine workout on youtube with zane, priest and ray and zane said he used to lift so heavy that he injured his shoulders and can no longer train them anymore because the pain is so bad. he talked about how he was lifting super heavy with arnold during a few seasons to bring up his weak points and it tore him up.
I have spoken with Mr. Zane about three times over the years- very nice man. “Yes,” at one time early in his career he trained heavy and did a lot of forced reps. Later in his career when he achieved most of his success, he used lighter weights, never did forced reps and often did not even go to failure. He would only leg press with about 200 pounds and barbell curl no more then 85 pounds. Granted Zane was not a mass monster we are used to seeing today, but he built an impressive physique none the less. I like to train as heavy as I can, but never at the expense of good form. I am NOT against training heavy but again I don’t let momentum take over. Perhaps this is the reason I have stayed injury free all these years.
that sounds about right GC, i think you should continue the way you train.
i used to be one of the biggest promotors of ego-training, which destroyed my back a couple days before christmas last year. i was doing 5x5 deadlift, and forced myself to keep increasing the weight from week to week, until one week i had to start bending my lower back to pull it up. i heard a big crack, and i havent deadlifted ever since.
i am still fighting my ego on evry session. but i have applied a method, where i think to myself before evry max-set, how can i lift as hardcore-allout as possible, without being hurt in the process? and it has kept me from further injuries.
from experience it is just as important to read about how you should train your diffrent body parts without being injured, instead of only focusing on the articles of the type “how to get MASSIVE IN 2 WEEKS!!!!”…because,,,,if you’re injured,you can’t train, can you…..
i think proper form, where you also take advantage of the negative, and where you use the targeted muscle to lift the weight, and not momentum, is always the way to go….however, i can see the logic behind going a bit heavier, where you loosen your form a bit, perhaps evry 6-8 weeks…this is to shock your muscles a bit, to get used to heavier weights, and get past plateous. . but if you do this all the time, i think the targeted muscle won’t be stimulated enough, and the risk of injury increases a lot.
Congratulations on your results, Kevin.
@ GC
Re: “loosen up the form, do fast reps with hardly no emphasis on the negative”
There are some who do use sloppy form yes and they possibly do train partially for ego but others like Ronnie who get accused of using sloppy form are actually moving the weights in a controlled explosive fashion with little to no emphasis on the negative.
When done correctly I find is actually much harder to do than training like Dorian and brings better results, does not tax your CNS unnecessarily and gives a wicked pump!
If any of you have read Ronnies book, it’s a different school of thought but I must say for me personally not only does it make the most sense compared to Dorian’s, Mentzer’s and Arnold’s styles, it has given me the best results I have ever had -- but hey we are all different, everyone has to find their way.
I am no expert but I think it might have something to do with muscle fibre types. For example regarding legs, Ronnie says if you want then to grow, fast explosive reps with heavy weight is the way to do it.
The best muscle fibres for bodybuilding in terms of growth are the type IIb fast twitch fibres (which no doubt Kevin has plenty of) rather than the slow twitch fibre types that marathon runners have. Although genetically we have certain amounts of each, apparently it is possible to change slow twich fibres into fast twitch, (not 100% fast twitch but basically 1/2 way there -- into type IIa fibres) depending on the way you train. I have a theory that training using what looks to be loose form, fast reps with no emphasis on the negative (when done correctly like Ronnie) is the way to do it.
…Just my $0.2 cents.
i think it not only has to do with fiber types but i think it has a lot more to do with what really catches our interest. i always use working out as a stress reliever and a place just to get away from the real world for awhile. i was never into that 1 set to failure thing because i like the feeling of the pump and training for multiple sets. like someone said a few posts ago, guys like dorian do 1 all out set to failure but they still do super heavy warm up sets to prime themselves before that one set. in my mind i would count all of those heavy warm up sets as real sets making it 2-4 sets per exercise which is essentially what is going on. its more than just a warm up, its the pyramiding principle and just doing the last set to failure. i think its marketed better to people saying all you have to do is do one all out set per exercise and get awesome results. when in reality you are doing multiple heavy pyramiding sets just like everybody else.
myself i just cant find the fun in training to all out failure every single set multiple times a week because i feel burnt out after only a few weeks. if i slowly increase sets or reps, rotate exercises, cut rest periods, drop sets, supersets, and other intensity techniques with the occasional failure set i find my drive to workout lasts a lot longer. im not saying i wouldnt get the same results with heavy duty or hit but im just staying its not fun to me because i burn out quick. heavy duty is the same principle as regular pyramid training except heavy duty does the last set to failure and forced reps on every set.
i dont see how anybody that was not on steroids could ever recover for real and keep their motivation for very long if they were truly creating the kind of intensity that dorian did in the gym. everybody thinks they are doing hit but like dorian himself said they still fail to create the intensity that is needed in that one set. just going to positive failure isnt enough. you have to push yourself harder than ever for that last set and some people just dont have that in them every workout but still think they are doing the program like it was made.
I understand how some are critical to Kevin’s approach to doing certain exercises such as doing behind the neck presses. That is fine because everyone is entitled to their own opinion and probably for some of us behind the neck presses should be avoided. I believe that Kevin is not prescribing exercises in here but is only recommending what is best from his “bodybuilding” or “moving athlete” point of view based on himself. If you want a more in depth look into training tailored to your needs hire a proper knowledgeable professional trainer. Kevin sported one of the most impressive set of shoulders ever in pro-bodybuilding in which behind the neck presses surely could attribute too. And by the looks of him currently he does not appear to have any problems with his rotator cuffs. We all have different body types and genetics that respond at many levels to different training intensities or styles wether you are natural(no steroids) or on steroids. The key thing is to learn from the mistakes of others and yourself because bodybuilding and human performance will always be about trial and error when pushing the boundaries of size, strength, conditioning and so on. I’m sure Dorian at some point changed some of his “Mentzer style” philosophy on training after he tore his bicep/tricep. Just as well Kevin at some point must have changed his approach and philosophy after he tore one of his pectorals earlier in his pro career.
Take it with a grain of salt.
Originally Posted By GC@Martin -- Just to pick up on one of your points here Martin, I have always wondered why many of the guys these days seem to loosen up the form, do fast reps with hardly no emphasis on the negative and seem to let momentum come into play to lift heavier weights. I am NOT criticizing anyone here; I would honestly like to know if there is some rational behind this type of training. If I believed it was a better way to train, I would be the first to adopt it. Being older, I tend to train the old school way with slow negatives, very strict form and no momentum. Of course you have to use less weights that way, but I was always under the impressive that that is the best way to stimulate muscle growth. Frank Zane would not train heavy but would still really work the muscle. He was like a Zen master meditating when working out. I would love if someone could speak to this.
sometimes regardless of what routine or training methods you use you will have a body part which will be weak.its called genetics.kevins back was his weakness.dorian back was his strength.kevins chest was awsome.dorian chest was weak.both these athletes would have bombed these body parts with everything and at the end of the day genetics prevail.the beauty of this sport is that we arent locked down to one size fits all.my advice is to customize a routine that suite you.only you yourself know your body.
i would love to get norweigen take on this subject.
well said fury….although i still stick to what i said, that kevin should’ve trained more like dorian when it came to back training, i completely agree with you. genetics play a big part.
i completely disagree with you tyson…i get the feeling that you think that kevin has no responsibility for what info he puts out there. you mention that trial and error is important, and that is true…but don’t wanna be doing trial and error to your rotator cuffs. your strength will be destroyed forever and shoulders will never be the same….and one of the most dangerous exercises out there for rotator cuffs i think is behind the neck presses.
everything should be taken with a grain of salt…but let’s not forget that this is not some random info thrown out on a website by a nobody,,, kevin is a pro, and looked up to by maaany, and he actually recommended this exercise to a 17-year old lad called andrew, in a customized training program….just gets me thinking….
I’m sorry you feel that way Martin. No disrespect.
I think one thing we can all agree on as we’ve all touched point on from Fury, Rob, David and also your valid input Martin is that we can all learn something new and useful from the Pro’s to our advantage.
Bruce Lee said it best with this quote:
“Absorb what is useful. It’s not about blindly adopting patterns and practices. It’s about taking the best of the best and tailoring it. It’s also about throwing away what doesn’t work.”
Bruce borrowed concepts and techniques from everybody and every art in a relentless pursuit of the best of the best. According to Bruce, “Absorb what is useful, Discard what is not, Add what is uniquely your own.”
And to you Martin you said it best with this very quote of your own:
“With that little cosy story, i try to tell you that sometimes it makes just as much sense to listen to Martin on TLR instead of Kevin..and sometimes it makes more sense to listen to Kevin, and not Martin”.
So on that note time to hit my shoulders with behind the neck presses!!!!
**Oh and a word of CAUTION- This exercise may be deemed unsafe and cause injury to self. Please perform at your own risk and see your Doctor before attempting exercise to avoid unnecessary shoulder injuries to i.e. rotator cuff.**
I would not do behind the neck press (BNP) with a regular barbell, but I do make use of BNP on the smith machine from time to time. I use a slow controlled movement (no bouncing) and am very careful that I am warmed up and mindful that I don’t feel too much of a stretch on the bottom portion of the rep. It is also good to do some rotator cuff exercises with light to moderate weight to strengthen this area.
thats one thing i really agree with. do rotator specific exercises. the workouts you do strengthen the muscles but as they get stronger your rotators and other internal movers dont get the same stimulation as they would if you would specifically target them. thats like the people that say all you have to do is bench squat deadlift rows and stuff and your arms will grow fine. which we all know is true only up to a point. eventually everything will grow and your arms will become you weak points in strength and size limiting how much weight you are able to lift at the compound movements. what people talk alot about though is full range of motion and not many people realize that no exercise for any body part can ever take any muscle through its full range of motion. lets take biceps for example. a barbell curl doesnt work the biceps in a stretch or contracted position but more in the midrange. an incline dumbbell curl works the muscle in a stretched position and something like a concentration curl works the muscle in a contracted position. some people grow fine working through only 1 or 2 ranges but later on sometimes when your progress slows or stops its smart to do a new range that you havent did for a long time. so if your doing incline curls and barbell curls, take out one of those and insert a concentration curl. when people talk about form or full range of motion on bench press there really isnt a full range of motion from stretch to contracted. its a midrange movement so pretty much whatever form you want to use that works for you is right. as long as you still train different exercises in the midrange and stretch positions you are still training the muscle through its full range.
i guess my whole point is even if your doing perfect form on behind the beck press or any other exercise you might be training that specific exercise through its range of motion, but your not training the whole muscle through its full range of motion.
ok, Tyson..much respect for that post man….
and i don’t know if you were ironic or not with that last caution,,,not important if you were or not to me,,well put, and i advise evrybody to follow that caution if you are un-experienced and do not care to be injured…….behind the necks also put a lot of stress on your neck. so for those with neck (and not only shoulder-problems) problems, i will advise front military presses.
and one more tip, do not lift until lockout on military presses, this can also hurt your neck when lifting very heavy, AND, when you lockout you use more triceps. better to start with military presses,only lift 2/3 towards lockout, and instead blast the triceps afterwards with narrow benchpress and dips…..
i would not hold any caution at all in regards to behind the neck press. if your flexible enough, do full range of motion and dont go overboard on the weight or more than you can handle i dont see a problem with it at all. people trying to throw behind the neck press to the wind saying it causes all these problems is just not true. stupid people who dont know how to do the exercises correct are what cause injury. not to mention years of shit form on flat bench press without taking a rest off doing 1 rep max every single day then they try to blame it on the behind the neck press. it couldnt possible have been your shitty form and using to much weight could it?
every exercise can be dangerous if performed wrong. if your going to heavy or dont know what your doing your bound for injury in all forms from elbows, shoulders, knees… everything. there is no reason to shy away from behind the neck press even with shoulder problems. just start off very light with correct form, stretch a lot, and rest a lot. the only way anybody should ever get an injury is from bad form, too much weight than they can handle, or overuse. i see no other reason for any injury in weightlifting or bodybuilding. so again, if you have an injury and cleared by a doctor to workout then there is no reason why you cant do every single exercise that you want to do. just be smart about it using lighter weights and full range of motion/good form. if your still hurting even after doing that then you need to go back to the doctor anyways because the injury lies deeper than just that specific exercise. you would have some sort of internal injury that would need an xray or mri. you guys need to stop reading bb.com articles and shit that tells you to stay away from exercises. just because you see a pro on the page behind the neck pressing 315+ lbs doesnt mean you have to do that. thats where the problem comes when people see this shit and try to do it the same way then they get injured. and like i said before, how do you know another exercise from overuse or poor form isnt causing the shoulder problems and not behind the neck presses?
hehe, david, i just lost all respect for you. you speak in a way where it sounds like you want an argument.
you actually went as far as saying that behind the neck presses are never a problem, it is only due to stupid people not performing it right. that comment in itself is so stupid that i feel sorry for you dog.
you obviously have no clue what you are talking about, enemy. if you claim that i am one of those who only read bb.com articles, and swallow them raw, i can tell you that all i speak is from experience..behind the neck-presses and behind the neck-pulldowns are not natural movements for the body. and they also demand you to bend your neck, which obviously leave your neck in a much more vulnerable position than if you keep it flexed and in a straight position. you wud know this if you had a tad of experience.
we all know that if you bend your neck, or the rest of your spine, you are left in a vulnerable and dangerous position.
you could compare bending your neck, in behind the neck-presses, to bending your lower back during deadlifts. both examples can be fatal.
the problem,DAVID,with your advice, is that new guys, who lift puny weights, will, as you say, have no problems with these exercises in the beginning, when they lift puny weights. and the spine and neck can manage to stay injury free up to a certain point, even though you lift wrong….but, as these youngsters grow stronger and stronger, and put on heavier and heavier weights, they will eventually hit the wall..and YES,this will happen even though they do not lift heavier weights than they can handle. because, they have grown the muscle to push the weights in a controlled manner, but the spine and neck can simply not follow the muscle, and you will hear an un-cosy crack…either in your neck,doing behind the necks, or in your lower back, pefroming deadlifts with a bent lower back…..
yes,yes, yes DAVID, i know that many guys can perform these exercises without being injured. but i am not talking about fantastic specimens as yourself, who can do these exercises without any problems….BUT,after all, this is a site for evrybody, and even very young people, with no experience. and who potentially do not have the sceleton to perform these exercises, even though they are as flexible as fuckin’ tarzan…i am talking to those people. and tip them to be aware of these exercise, because they can be fatale……EXAMPLE:i know people who have a problem with the lower back(!) doing military presses with only 100 pounds. and i know others who can deadlift 700 pounds with a rounded back without getting problems…..the point,david, should not be that there exist people in the world who can perform these exercises without problems. the point should be that a lot more will actually, with time, have problems with them…..
your not right dude. like in the head i mean. why did you all the sudden start commenting dick things right after norweigian left?
GUYS! GUYS
I THINK YOUR ALL MISSING THE CRUCIAL POINT HERE!
DORIAN’S FACE CANNOT BE TRAINED TO LOOK LIKE BIG KEV’S! HIS GENETICS ARE POOR…HE LOOKS LIKE A BULLLDOG CHEWING A WASP AND KEV IS AN EVER-YOUNG PRETTY BOY.
DOZZER MAY HAVE WON 6 MR O TITLES BUT WHO’S LAUGHING NOW?? THATS RIGHT PRETTY INJURY FREE KEV AND HIS LEVRONE FORMULAE
BA BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM IM OUTTA HERE DUDES
martin i myself in the past would do heavy presses behind the neck going up to 3 plates either side.at 38 natural i would advice anyone out there to be very carefull with this movement.i still do them but not to the wieght i use to.i might use this exercise say every second or third work out. i can only speak for myself that i havent had any shoulder injury from performing press behind the neck.again i have tried various other exercise that were recommend by pros which when performed gave me pain.simple answer did not perform this exersise.listen to your body.as for shoulders and other body parts there is a shit load of other exersises you can perform if one particular exersise is giving you pain.just my personal experience from training.cheers fury.
im just curios kevin suffered a pec tear in the past. im wondering if he sustained any other major injuries?
Originally Posted By GC@Martin -- Just to pick up on one of your points here Martin, I have always wondered why many of the guys these days seem to loosen up the form, do fast reps with hardly no emphasis on the negative and seem to let momentum come into play to lift heavier weights. I am NOT criticizing anyone here; I would honestly like to know if there is some rational behind this type of training. If I believed it was a better way to train, I would be the first to adopt it. Being older, I tend to train the old school way with slow negatives, very strict form and no momentum. Of course you have to use less weights that way, but I was always under the impressive that that is the best way to stimulate muscle growth. Frank Zane would not train heavy but would still really work the muscle. He was like a Zen master meditating when working out. I would love if someone could speak to this.
GC, I think the ones getting result with that type of liftingt style,they take advantage of the change of direction fraction of the lift. I’ll try to explain : let’s take bench press , or barbell row. Load heavily, heavier than a slow , controlled movement allow for. Move the bar freely and quick.At the bottom of the movement change abruptly direction o
I say, change direction from a fast descent to an explosive ascent of the bar. Do this quickly , sort of your car goes backward an hill and we abruptly stick in first gear, using no clutch.
That’s been scientifically studied and proved to create a huge load.
Say we use 200lbs, or kg whatever. At that precise moment the load will be triple or greater. Then we have an istant of great tension, equivalent to 600lbs or more, when the muscle is at max stretch. That cause microtears.
When doing this , the rest of the lift will be quite fast momentum lifting the positive, fast negative descent to increase the change of direction load increase.
A bit like liifting a barrel with an explosive microcharge: the barrel keep flying. Then , when the barrel fdall and touch the ground,repeat.
Not sure about safety and healt conseguences, certainly it does work good for some people.
I would suggest doing static hold in that sweet spot first, then “bouncy” holds, then try the tecnique with lighter weights.
Of course, never with cold muscles (unless 20 year old)
I add , great lifting experience is needed here.The load should be on the muscles , not on the tendons.
For those lifting more with tendons than muscles, using such tecnique would be asking for an injury
my advice is avoid Btn shoulder presses at all costs.I used to do them 20 years ago but ended up having surgery for a “shoulder impingement”, friction between the bones was wearing away the ligaments! Physio advised me never to do them again (or behind the neck pull downs for that matter).
Ever since I have done both exercises to the front and with progressivily heavier weight…I’m now 43 and had no injury problems since.
Originally Posted By massiccioOriginally Posted By GC@Martin -- Just to pick up on one of your points here Martin, I have always wondered why many of the guys these days seem to loosen up the form, do fast reps with hardly no emphasis on the negative and seem to let momentum come into play to lift heavier weights. I am NOT criticizing anyone here; I would honestly like to know if there is some rational behind this type of training. If I believed it was a better way to train, I would be the first to adopt it. Being older, I tend to train the old school way with slow negatives, very strict form and no momentum. Of course you have to use less weights that way, but I was always under the impressive that that is the best way to stimulate muscle growth. Frank Zane would not train heavy but would still really work the muscle. He was like a Zen master meditating when working out. I would love if someone could speak to this.
GC, I think the ones getting result with that type of liftingt style,they take advantage of the change of direction fraction of the lift. I’ll try to explain : let’s take bench press , or barbell row. Load heavily, heavier than a slow , controlled movement allow for. Move the bar freely and quick.At the bottom of the movement change abruptly direction o
This was the first post on the subject. the order it’s all upside down.
Without this post, look like I talk about behind the neck press.
That’s not the case
I wanted to thank you for th is wonderful read!! I undoubtedly enjoying every last little bit of it I have you bookmarked to look into new stuff you post.
Thank you very much. My business wonderring if I will be able share your incredible editorialcoach handbags on the bookmarking associated nation,
Aha, did you happen to catch the NBA Lockout commercial, hilarious!
In the beginnings of this NBA Lockout several NBA and NFL stars have come together to make this hilarious video:
I wish, I could build a body like the picture above has a beautiful muscles and strong but there is no time for me .. had to turn away.
Welcome my website : My Boat Plans Review and Bonus Package